Comments on: £38,000 average annual cost to pitch if UK design agency http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/ Share what you know, Learn what you don't. This is the evolution of one Afrikan. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:55:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Gareth Knight http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-8000 Gareth Knight Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:10:14 +0000 http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/%c2%a338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-8000 Yea, true. I'm not sure that it happens in too many other industries 'tho. Sure, software, web dev, design all have an aspect of "free pitches", but perhaps that's due to the relative immaturities of the industries. You wouldn't ask an architect to design your house without paying him. I'm not sure what the answer is, and I think for many scenarios there are differing answers, but the common theme is that clients get intellectual property for free - which doesn't sound like a fair deal. Perhaps it's a function of how established a service provider is, and how much they can turn away work, rather than the industry they operate in? Yea, true.

I’m not sure that it happens in too many other industries ‘tho. Sure, software, web dev, design all have an aspect of “free pitches”, but perhaps that’s due to the relative immaturities of the industries. You wouldn’t ask an architect to design your house without paying him.

I’m not sure what the answer is, and I think for many scenarios there are differing answers, but the common theme is that clients get intellectual property for free - which doesn’t sound like a fair deal.

Perhaps it’s a function of how established a service provider is, and how much they can turn away work, rather than the industry they operate in?

]]> By: IrishAfrican http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7999 IrishAfrican Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:10:19 +0000 http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/%c2%a338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7999 This is not a unique problem to the design industry. Call them design pitches, proposals or tendors, it doesn't matter, often these are done free of charge yet cost the proposing company man weeks of time and money. This happens in creative design, software development , facilities management, and engineering and probably most other industries to boot. An unfortunate reality. The difference is when the client awards the job he has a better understanding of what he is gettiing and a formal document or design that can be used in dispute negotiations. No such luck with the plumber. Perhaps he fixes the problem, perhaps not. You might be calling another one out the following week! This is not a unique problem to the design industry.

Call them design pitches, proposals or tendors, it doesn’t matter, often these are done free of charge yet cost the proposing company man weeks of time and money. This happens in creative design, software development , facilities management, and engineering and probably most other industries to boot.

An unfortunate reality. The difference is when the client awards the job he has a better understanding of what he is gettiing and a formal document or design that can be used in dispute negotiations. No such luck with the plumber. Perhaps he fixes the problem, perhaps not. You might be calling another one out the following week!

]]> By: Gareth Knight http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7976 Gareth Knight Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:03:40 +0000 http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/%c2%a338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7976 I think so Ryan - I can think of many times when there's been the old tired line of "... and there's much more work to come down the line if you guys produce good work, but do this for us first..." when all that really happens is that you either get squeezed further, or never hear from them after sweating so much to produce good work. I think it's also partly the agencies fault, and the industry as whole, 'cos creative work is not really something that you can put a time to - a great idea can happen anytime, but the client is effectively buying those ideas for their vision of work time, so how do you charge for it if the designer thought about it in the shower.... the more shrouded in mystery the industry is, the harder it will be to justify costs... and perhaps that is why the digital medium is growing so fast, 'cos you can measure a ROI better than a in a TV ad or a magazine advert etc... I think so Ryan - I can think of many times when there’s been the old tired line of “… and there’s much more work to come down the line if you guys produce good work, but do this for us first…” when all that really happens is that you either get squeezed further, or never hear from them after sweating so much to produce good work.

I think it’s also partly the agencies fault, and the industry as whole, ‘cos creative work is not really something that you can put a time to - a great idea can happen anytime, but the client is effectively buying those ideas for their vision of work time, so how do you charge for it if the designer thought about it in the shower…. the more shrouded in mystery the industry is, the harder it will be to justify costs… and perhaps that is why the digital medium is growing so fast, ‘cos you can measure a ROI better than a in a TV ad or a magazine advert etc…

]]> By: Ryan Shelton http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7975 Ryan Shelton Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:52:49 +0000 http://www.oneafrikan.com/archives/2005/11/17/%c2%a338000-average-annual-cost-to-pitch-if-uk-design-agency/#comment-7975 I definitely think pitching is one of the most annoying things about our industry. How many other professions do work for free!? Part of it is our own fault though, as we try to out do each-other by producing better work/ideas than the other agency/s on a roster. You'd think the industry might grow up sometime and stop all this craziness. I certainly hope I don't get into the pitching process when I start my own agency. It will be hard to avoid though as, sometimes, some of the nicest work comes about via a free pitch. Are we all just a donkey being enticed by a carrot in front of us? I definitely think pitching is one of the most annoying things about our industry. How many other professions do work for free!? Part of it is our own fault though, as we try to out do each-other by producing better work/ideas than the other agency/s on a roster. You’d think the industry might grow up sometime and stop all this craziness. I certainly hope I don’t get into the pitching process when I start my own agency. It will be hard to avoid though as, sometimes, some of the nicest work comes about via a free pitch.

Are we all just a donkey being enticed by a carrot in front of us?

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